Are men safe and unemotional or ever raging hulks? | Perception Matters
Silly Hulk, hysterics are for whatever is not a woman
To be a woman and endure masculinity in the modern west is essentially a superpower.
Or at least training for having super powers. If you disagree then you are clearly a toxic male fanboy that has been successfully triggered, by the brilliantly totes not sexist writers and creatives hired to create a show for women by women. I’m just whatever a man is though so I only say this off of what some of the aforementioned oppressed western women have told me is the western woman’s experience.
(Still not going to go into how the film crew and others are still mostly male because unlike She-Hulk no super strength yet, sexual dimorphism still exists and prolly some union laws of hiring not based on happenstances of birth)
Ya’ll see this from the Marvel Studios series She-Hulk: Attorney at Law?
I get its a show. Entertainment. Just some lines written to be said by someone pretending to be someone else in some other situation. That aside, are you or do you know women who really think men generally have no emotions, don’t control them, or walk around not concerned for physical safety even though they are the majority target of physical violence?
This can’t really be the something more than a 1 percent of the world thinks can it?
A strong and independent woman I know recently asked why it seems that women like the one example she provided raging about patriarchy, all to often have men in their lives that support and help them. Outside of the performative nature of political signaling, let’s say she believed what she was saying that she was more harmed by general patriarchy than aided by men in her personal life. Maybe a certain sort of woman thinks the men who help them seem to do it effortlessly and resentfully acknowledge they have been helped past the women without that help, so there is an aspect of guilt?
“If it wasn’t for patriarchy then I wouldn’t need help. I’d be like the men that don’t need help and instead help others!”
she-hulk hulksplains hulking out
Back to the analysis of Jennifer explaining why she can hulk out and maintain control to Bruce banner. Shall begin with this excerpt from an article on Looper, “The She-Hulk Episode 1 Scene That Was Really Special To Tatiana Maslany”:
“Jennifer also breaks it down further for Bruce in Episode 1. “When I’m catcalled in the street, when incompetent men explain my own area of expertise to me. I do it pretty much every day because if I don’t, I will get called emotional, or difficult, or might just literally get murdered,” she says about the need to control her rage.
Maslany further explained to Decider that the scene was “one of the moments in the show that I’m, like, this is so special to see this in this larger superhero story. So much of this allegory of superheroes is always rooted in these smaller human moments, and so to get to really speak to that was very cool.””
“…unlike a lot of problems that arise while making a Marvel show, Gao couldn’t really look to She-Hulk’s 40+ years of comic book lore for an answer. All the way back to the character’s debut in 1979’s Savage She-Hulk #1, Jen retains her consciousness and personality during her first transformation into She-Hulk.”
Before going into more this is an example of how some will say dont complain about X because it was like X in the source material then go on to say don’t say it should be like Y because this isn’t the same thing as the source material. When you release some art to the public it is no longer the possession of the artists. Especially if you sell off any rights you may have. Anyone should be free to critique anything but I do not expect anyone owes me any sort of art in the way I want it to be. The tactic of basing art on previous work then saying you’ll do it like it was done before then do it your own way does irk me though.
Not She-Hulk waking up from a comatose state punching rando doctors mad though like this image from her origin.
Why not borrow from the comics? Here from Looper “What Only Comics Readers Know About She-Hulk’s MCU Origin Story”:
“On the run from the law, Bruce reconnects with Jennifer, who is preparing a case against local crime boss Nick Trask. The gangster’s goons critically injure Jennifer in a drive-by shooting, and Bruce administers an impromptu blood transfusion.
But Bruce’s gamma-irradiated blood doesn’t just save Jennifer’s life — it also transforms her into She-Hulk whenever she gets angry. As She-Hulk, Jennifer shares some powers with Bruce, including super strength and a giant green appearance, though She-Hulk luckily retains her intelligence and personality when she transforms.”
Bruce saves her life?
Oh no! Not this damsel.
Makes sense that getting whatever helps someone hulk out in the form that it can already be controlled via transfusion rather than whatever a full body gamma ray bombardment does to change the body from scratch to convert the blood in the first place, could have someone be more sane. Think getting a pre PANdemIC changed definition vaccine versus falling into a vat of bacteria.
As for the persons mental state prior to the ability to hulk out was it simply not being a western woman that handicapped Bruce Banner? ‘Toxic masculinity’ exists, as any sort of behavior can have expressions on the fringes that are generally harmful to the actor and those around them. We do not know much of MCU Bruce Banner’s childhood, but in the comic books that he was abused as a child.
He had sought therapy in some comics but even in pre gamma irradiation life, there were other issues he dealt with. Hulk’s ego doesn’t say “Puny Banner” as a new term of endearment comparing their size. His Hulk persona was in part a vehicle for and fueled by the anger that he had bottled up in him for so long.
We see some of that in how Jennifer hulks out and almost punches the cat callers (more on this later) as an expression of how the hulk power can let her anger out in situations she previously felt unable to do anything but seethe. I like that Banner comes in and prevents the assault of what at least a few on twitter are upset were not Latin men in Mexico. If they had been clearly “Latin” locals and catcalling in Spanish bet some would complain that it’s a negative trope of Latin men being lothsarios. Regardless this is not a damsel in distress trope but rather saving those toxic men from the distress the damsel was about to put them in.
Thats’s not the sort of empowerment some may think of but let’s see what the actress says about this hulksplaining scene from Decider article “Tatiana Maslany Praises ‘She-Hulk: Attorney at Law’ VFX Team: “I Felt So Empowered””
” I mean, to me that scene is one of the easiest scenes I’ve ever gotten to play because the truth of what she’s saying is so resonant to me. [Head writer] Jessica [Gao] wrote that scene obviously from a very experienced place, a deep place. And she did it with so much humor and such a light touch. It really is just speaking the truth that I think so many of us have experienced.”
See you have experience as a female that defines how you see the world. You claim you need female writers to tell things from a female POV for females acted out by females. Is the result also something only females can understand? Or do they claim anyone can learn from females explaining the female experience in a show so now don’t have to be female to be hired to write a different show about females from a female POV since they would have learned it now?
Hulk’s inability to control the anger and the ramifications of angering the wrong person, overcoming the base tendency to use ones power are some of the many things that made the character intriguing. This show is titled She-Hulk: Attorney at Law though which at least accurately indicates its less about being a hulk. Problem with that though is an admission by the writers that they do not think they are good at writing courtroom and other law related content. This Decider article “‘She-Hulk: Attorney at Law’ Cast, Crew Explain How the Series Updates She-Hulk’s Powers” shows how the powers of a hulk are secondary to the a hulk being a woman:
“Our writers room was very, very heavily female,” She-Hulk head writer Jessica Gao told Decider. “When the representation behind the camera matches the representation in front of the camera, you get a lot more nuance because we’re mining each other’s life experiences. Everybody has different perspectives on their experience as a woman, so as we start talking about a lot of these things, a lot of common themes and patterns and issues start emerging.”
If being X is prerequisite to know what X is like then how does Jennifer know what not having lived with what she claims is the normal female experience is like? How are the female writers and character of Jennifer aware of what the male lived experience is? I doubt that most people writing articles or in She-Hulk’s writers can truly thing that acting out on anger is a positive thing. If men are more prone to loose themselves to emotion, it is not a perk but rather a handicap such as the often maligned trope of saying women are prone to hysterics.
More from the article.
“It’s not easy being the Hulk. Sure, you get super strength and invulnerability, but you also lose your mind — literally. For over a decade’s worth of movies, Bruce Banner ceded control of his hulked-out body to a massive loose cannon who left death and destruction in his wake. Being the Hulk has some perks, but it’s not like you get to actually enjoy those perks.
That’s not the case with She-Hulk, the latest superhero to make the leap from the printed page to the live-action Marvel Cinematic Universe. Whereas Banner had to work incredibly hard for an incredibly long time in order to merge his mind with his incredible Hulk form, his cousin Jennifer just… becomes She-Hulk. Jen is She-Hulk, She-Hulk is Jen, and neither one becomes an unstoppable engine of devastation in the process. The question is… how?”
In general control over emotions is something people just expect from well adjusted functional adults. Which is indicative of the supporters of the show. Check out some comments from the original image for yourself:
What is a woman? Did they confirm that those threats came from self identified women?
See as an X you Y can never understand what it is to be an X because you have never lived as an X but as an X that has only been an X I can understand what you Y can never understand and all the reasons why you Y treat X like you do. Once you notice this double standard you’ll see it everywhere. Also again what is a woman? Did France also grow up to be a biologist and knows none of the men objecting to this claim of constant prejudice have also been women at some time in their life?
Ah, the good old stop viewing women like they cant be more than sex objects but I’m going to mock you for not having had access to women as sex objects. I get that it’s like one may not care about X sport but then say that fans of Y team in X sport are just complaining about Z team because Y team lost to Z but they should instead just be happy for the good things happening to Z which is more than just X’s most recent opponent. But in general this 'you can’t get a woman to grant you sexual access' mockery, is a trite thing to say that is often an admission of how important the woman’s value as a sex object is to the person saying it, and an admission that it is women who tend to control when sex happens.
In majority of the cases men are only partially attracted to the sexuality. It’s more about what the sexuality of a woman represents in their ability to reproduce, nurture children and provide companionship in a shared home. This is true for females too. They find men ‘sexually’ desirable due to things that signal reproductive fitness, the ability to provide resources to nurture potential children and secure a potential home. For example do folk like Findlay truly think that the higher rates of male depression post divorce are due to the man no longer having access to sex, or do they understand that most men, even those in the thread, value women for more than sex?
We know male suicide rates are much higher than female (attempts may be closer) but it’s also a general trope that men refuse to cry or need to talk more about their feelings. We are humans, outside of psychopaths we all have emotions and deal with them differently. Good to see the continued focus on what some women deal with but don’t see the reason to do it in this ‘unlike you men we have to X Y Z.’
But maybe their inability to write courtroom content is a symptom of their struggles of going about how people may be guilty or innocent of certain accusations and what the ethical punishments for what they are guilty of should be.
the toxic male lens
There is a tendency to judge men by their worst examples and women by their best. The statement not all X are like that comes to mind here.
Shall close off with excerpts from a recent Forbes article “‘She-Hulk’ Is A Direct, Unapologetic Attack On Toxic Marvel Fanboys”
“She-Hulk was apparently conceived correctly predicting its own backlash by a familiar group of toxic fanboys who exist in the comic book movie/show space. While the show has had explicitly pro-feminist messaging from the first episode as Jen juggles the double standards for female superheroes, in episode 3, She-Hulk just goes directly at these kinds of toxic fans with an entire montage focused on a bunch of dudes saying she’s too derivative of an emasculated Hulk or debating whether or not she was bangable.”
Yeah, Jennifer became She Hulk after talking about Captain America’s virginity then having a car crash. She then finds her way to a bathroom at a rando bar to have people make her up and boost her attractiveness. Then there was the recent Twerkening. This show is totes not about sexuality.
Remember boys and girls, if you sexualize a woman in front of a bar that is dressed in a certain attention grabbing way, its grounds for her super powered self punching you, but her gyrating her rear end is totes not sexualized. Avert your male gaze. They are clapping them booty cheeks for each other. Sometimes the drop it low version isn’t to simulate sexual intercourse but rather displaying their squat form to each other.
Some may be surprised saying it’s a mixed message but this actually is closer to what feminism is in practice. There is the don’t sexualize us cohort right along with the we will protest internationally while wearing genitalia representations as hats on even children and also we are so sex positive we support drag queens which are essentially men doing an overly stylized caricature of mostly sexual femininity being ‘ambassadors’ of how it is to be a woman.
Stop treating the show like it is supposed to be a typical Marvel action production to move merchandise and the general story of the MCU extended universe forward. I see it as an attempt t attract new demographics of middle aged women to the MCU and possibly also some background benefits to having content made for women, starring women for women which can be thrown in as a whole and say the studio is meeting the ESG goals. Everything else is a bonus.
More from Forbes, “At some point, the women involved in universes like the MCU were going to get the greenlight to push back. Previously, this mainly happened off-camera, where actresses like Brie Larson, who plays Captain Marvel, had fanboys declare war on her after comments she made about how too many movie critics were white men, and she wanted more women and people of color in her own junkets. That sparked a (very stupid) firestorm that caused Captain Marvel to be review bombed so hard that Rotten Tomatoes had to change its policies about user-submitted scores.”
I am meant to believe that Brie Larson, who I assume is a white person. As an internationally famous actress, being paid millions by a billion dollar company, ran mostly by white men pointed out that they think folk should be hired based on race and sex to talk about their project. Had a platform to say what she said, have the M$M signal boost it, then have Rotten Tomatoes, one of the biggest sources for the sort of critiquing they were talking about, change their rules to better fit Larson’s desires…
Is this the white privilege I have been told about?
No, silly Silas, white women are the most affected in these times of misogyny. If it wasn’t for review bombers everyone would have loved the movie just as much as the first Ironman! There is no such thing as review fluffing too.
No one would go post perfect ratings for things outside of the quality of the show!
Is it possible to create a show targeting a subset of women are infected with toxic femininity or is that a not all women are like that meets an attack on one is an attack on all women meets you are just scared of strong independent women meets etc, etc?
Last excerpt. “Fortunately for She-Hulk, it has Tatiana Maslany as its star, who really can do no wrong, and she’s what’s holding this entire thing together, as only she can… I do hope She-Hulk can move beyond its haters eventually, and become something fully compelling by the end even if it shreds the traditional Marvel formula, which at this point, is something of a welcome relief.”
There even is an admission here that if you spend time attacking a subset of people and trying to bait them while plugging your feminist messaging you can loose out on the actual story telling. Even if the show is entirely about that message is it effective and enough to attract and keep an audience?
Does this show appeal to the sort of woman my friend told me about who rages on about patriarchy while in a business inherited from her father and co ran with her once male partner. The sort of woman that may think these men and others did not help as much as they would for fellow men so have some spite and think, “If it wasn’t for patriarchy then I wouldn’t need help. I’d be like the men that don’t need help and instead help others! And regardless if men do help it's for the wrong reasons”
There is some acknowledgment of this when the 4th wall breaking She-Hulk expresses consternation at being hired for being a Hulk rather than her competence as a lawyer. I'd argue that it was her being a lawyer AND having power rather than for her powers regardless of how good she was at being a lawyer. But this totally not projection by the somewhat affirmatively actioned hired writers speaking on their own lived experience of being hired or hiring people based on happenstance features rather than competence.
This surely no more than 1% of the population that the writers, Maslany and other commentaries, that think of men as emotionless or slaves to emotions, surely can’t be a part of, don’t realize the effect of things like “man up.” This cohort also seem unable to understand what it means when people advocate for men to be more open about feelings. Unable to take that evidence and form convincing arguments for the humanity of men, they then struggle to acknowledge that these are signs of how rather than not having feelings, struggles and other stressors men tend to bottle them up.
Nah.
I'm just mansplaining away the seething anger I have from my toxic masculinity being exposed by words and wish I had some hulk like power to lash out physically kinda sorta like She-Hulk did to words she did not like...
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